The Future Is Nigh!!

[Dr. Feelgood]

Fuel's running out, but not for a few odd years... Until then, oil companies will screw it for all it's worth.

Many think the new way of going about running vehicles is HHO, or OxyHydrogen fuel.

Now, I'm not that technical-minded when it comes to engines and how they're powered, so I only know what I've read on a few odd interweb pages, mainly the following...

Savefuel.ca Hydrogen Generator - Brown's Gas Generators - Joe Cell, Supplemental Hydrogen Injection

It sounds pretty neat... Engines that run from distilled water sounds like something from Back To The Future, but you can't honestly think that people, after knowing for ages that fuel is running out, have not invested into finding new fueling methods.

Tell us your thoughts, and any knowledge you might have on this subject!!

[crazy 989]

hmmm hydrogen, oxygen whatever, they're both combustible, hydrogen being worse off than petrol - safety issue, for where ever you store it, not to mention it will just be oh hydrogen fuel is running out blah blah blah later on. only real alternative is solar energy, plenty of it, just no way yet to convert all that light into useful energy... yeah I do pay attention in school

[tom120934]

The main issue with solar energy is the pollution induced by the industrial process which produce the solar panels. We really need a technological breakthrough to find a way to produce such panels without side effects.

Once upon a time, I have read a study with this conclusion : with current technology, a surface of about 500'000km² of solar panels would be enough to power the whole planet (that is, about the superficy of France) but the industry needed to produce such a surface would kill the earth as certainly as a nuclear winter. I can't put my hands back on this study, anyone has a link ?

[Nik]

All Im going to say is....

Volvo For Life y0!

[Red Spar]

I hate to say this but they day of the automobile and our way of life in general is probably coming to a close.

I'm not usually a gloom and doomer but the facts are the facts.

Read this by Matt Savinar: Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash

I have listened to this guy speak - he knows what he is talking about.

It's basically going to take a technological miracle to get us out of the upcoming economic disaster. Maybe a breakthrough with nanotechnology to make spray on solar panels or fusion technology could save us but those would be at least 20yrs off to be massed produced. Between now and then we are going to be screwed. We will go thru an oil 'dark ages' probably for at least 20-30 yrs

The main problem really boils down to too many people on this planet all want to live like Americans and the Earth can't support that. With China and India approaching American levels of consumerism (Over 2 billion people right there) at the same time declining supplies of oil in the future means we're screwed!

The thing that sucks is I love cars.. I love big gas sucking growling, snarling hi horsepower V-8s.

My advice to everyone is to invest in a really good bicycle or maybe a horse.

Things are going to get bad soon.

[crazy 989]

errr no, theres no way people are going to go backwards, alternatives, such as methane, or the people giving up the drink for ethanol for fuel will be used until the day dawns of a permanent solution. End of cars pfffft too many lazy and obese people who would go cycling or walking for that matter. Hell it might go to electric car world but end of cars no sireee. hmmm the only thing that is going to run out in say is oil. in other words alternatives will be used unless the plastics industry was to be destroyed, or the alcohol industry. Biogas would be used or something, also scientists are looking at mars as an alternate home, so by that time theres no oil, theres a large possibility that outer space holidays are possible. well yeah the population is increasing but hell, whos to say the death rate wont exceed the birth rate due to some event happening say some outbreak of disease or a large meteor killing half the world's population.

[Red Spar]

Originally Posted by crazy 989

errr no, theres no way people are going to go backwards, alternatives, such as methane, or the people giving up the drink for ethanol for fuel will be used until the day dawns of a permanent solution.

They're not going to have a choice. I'm not sure you are aware of the gravity of the situation that we will be in. Alternatives can only cover a very small percentage of our energy needs. There is nowhere near enough to run the world's economy to even a small degree. Our economy will collapse without oil. Period.

Biogas would be used or something, also scientists are looking at mars as an alternate home, so by that time theres no oil, theres a large possibility that outer space holidays are possible

You need a growing economy and oil to afford to build fleets of spaceships to go to Mars, neither of which we will have. How many people could we even send? 100 at best...What about the rest of us 6 billion people left to fend for themselves? Unless we can build something as big as the Battlestar Galactica and can go 1/4 the speed of light, we're not going anywhere.

Remember the Dark Ages happened after Rome fell. For 500 years little advancement occurred in civilization. Rome was the light of civilization, as America and oil is now. Once they are gone the same will happen with us.

[crazy 989]

well, if the oil is spent in making a large super sized, gigantic solar panel in the sahara perhaps above the height of sandstorms, and stored in ultra large capacitors, which are then delivered to countries like batteries, erm that could work, although its a bit rough but yer its true, well hopefully someone can invent something like that to ensure barbaric times are not fallen on again...

[Dr. Feelgood]

Okay guys, let's keep this on the topic of powering vehicles, yeah?

To test this HHO theory, that has been labelled a scam in most parts of the interweb, I'm gonna build one. When I get my car up to where I live, I'm going to build a Hydrogen Fuel Cell in the trunk... mainly as something to do, and 'cos it really intrigues me

I'll probably post updates when I get around to it, but it probably won't be for another month or so.

So let's keep this topic going, yeah? What other means of powering a motor have you seen/heard of in the past, and your thoguhts on them?

[Red Spar]

Hate to burst your bubble but HHO is a scam. That system makes so little hydrogen, it barely puts a dent in power output or efficiency of an engine.

The problem with hydrogen is how energy intensive it is to extract it out of water. The electricity you use to break the hydrogen atoms off of the water molecules is really not productive. You're essentially adding an extra step (and transfer loss) to turn the electricity to hydrogen, when you would be best just storing that electricity in a battery to power an electric motor.

There has been some new research in using radio waves to break hydrogen atoms from water, but it is to early to tell if it is efficient enough to be a viable method over electrolysis.

Storage of hydrogen is the other main problem. Being a gas it uses much more volume and has to be under pressure compared to gasoline.

IMO the future will be electric cars. Battery technology is improving quite rapidly. Battery storage may equal gasoline storage in 10 yrs or so at the rate we are going. The key is just making the batteries cheap enough to be cost effective and low enough so the public can afford them.

Bio-fuel is a dead end beyond use in small amounts. Large scale production will rape the environment and send food prices soaring (Already is)

There really isn't else much out there liquid fuel wise to replace gasoline. Most people vastly underestimate the power locked up in one gallon of gasoline.

1 Gallon of Gas = 37 Kilowatt Hours of electricity.

1 Gallon of Gas = 500 hours of human work output
(37 KWH in 1 gallon of gas divided by human work output in agriculture of .074 KW = 500)

Nothing else can compare to that including hydrogen.


Good article on why hydrogen will go nowhere: Oilcrash.com: The Hydrogen Economy - Energy and Economic Black Hole

and this The Five Myths of the Hydrogen Fueled Vehicle

[crazy 989]

Red Spar speaks the truth - we had a fuel cell toy car in chemistry, and yer the energy produced is pathetic, but about other ways of powering cars, methane (biological waste ) solar energy to power an electric car, so that you dont need a couple of cables running out your house juicing the engine, - probs the only real solution,

[outlawz_mk]

I think they already have a solution but not telling u. The just continue with the oil thill it's empty. because they have put so much money into machine to take the oil out etc. the will continue till its totally empty. if they start OxyHydrogen fuel now nobody will need oil anymore and all those machines will stop working to early. they try to make as much money as the can with it and than turn to OxyHydrogen fuel when its time. The OxyHydrogen fuel studies r kept more secret than u think. they already have it but just trying to make it cheaper and cheaper till the all the oil is gone.

[Dr. Feelgood]

^ In 100% agreeance...

[bluefinder]

Gents, think that the problem is not as the petrol is in-off, is not the big companies and politics that are handle us.

ALternatives energies have been developed from some time ago, and they are already prepared to be used in current vehicles, but it is not interesting for the companies and governments that they were extensive arround the world. A lot of very poors countries could be rich if (for example) solar energy was developed. What do you say about deserts? It could be a good area for install solar panels and to sell the electric current to others countries...

Well, returning to energy for our loved cars, we will see that hibrid vehicles is the future (alomst of the next 15-20 years).