deciding on a game engine...

[multimediaman]

So ... Eventually, I was wanting to mod out a game to include my own stuff ... and naturally I'm inclined to Unreal 3, since it's openly moddable on PC, and even better, the content would be available for PS3 as well!

But my question is, what kinds of environments can Unreal3 really handle?

Would it be able to handle a next-gen-looking GTA style game? or is it not capable of that many expansive areas? All the shots I've seen and paid attention to are mostly closed and confined, strictly linear, like maybe there is some sort of limitation as to how its optimization/occlusion is able to work with huge environments.


So do you think Unreal 3 would work? or should I look towards something else?

I'd be looking for something that can handle normal maps, specular maps, opacity maps, bump maps, self-illumination maps, scrolling textures, animated textures, reflection maps, cubic reflection, and fall-off (for car paint's reflectivity)

it'd be easier and nicer if I could just mod out gran turismo 5, but that's not an option

[Johnas]

Is there free tool to mod Unreal 3 or does it come with the game? I'd be interested to test it a bit.

[multimediaman]

it comes with the PC version. The catch is, it apparently doesn't come with the PS3 version, so if you want to make levels playable on the PS3, you'll have to buy both versions... lol

[tom120934]

I don't know that engine, but from previous coding experiments on free 3D engine, I know you should really make your decision after really putting your hands on one or several game engines. A really good way to do that is to design a proof of concept and to code it with each of your candidate game engines.

A simple test case could be : import a model, use a configuration file for the scene, put the model in game in the scene and try to control the model, the camera according to some simple rules.

Let us know about your progress in this area. What did you achieve so far ? I asked once about the MotorCity project, I wanted to know if you produced that with only CG software or if some coding were involved. I'll stay tuned for your answer

[multimediaman]

right now? I haven't achieved much of anything at the moment... All I have is the unreal2k4 editor.

As for Motor City, I just figured it would be nice to develop it in a video game engine, so that way, when it comes time to make the videos, it would either be already done and viewable to anyone with that video game, or else the rendering would be complete at pretty much any time, so I just go in and view the "level" while I record the output. Also, having it for something that's viewable on the ps3 is nice, that way I could have something that plays at UT3's resolution, at a fraction of the file size the entire video would've been, and it'd be pretty much guaranteed to run the same on all PS3's...

[crazy 989]

Gears of War is run by the Unreal 3 engine, possibly the best looking shooter I've ever played, you should check out the modding community in their forums, it seems you can edit anything you want...but that editor is only a glimpse of unreal 3 - I don't much else about the engine, never really tryed it out.

[ibeam]

i have a friend who's been working on a game engine, i'll see if he has any thoughts on this one. motor city in a game=

ibeam

[tom120934]

mmm, just to be clear, what you have shown so far of Motor City was made without any game engine and without any coding task ? I mean, you used only your 3D software (max or maya or blender or ...) ?

If so, then you'll really have to define a basic scenario to test every candidate game engines, by implementing that scenario in each game engine. Any thought of that as of now ?

Sorry if I'm slow to understand how you worked so far. As it's a project I want to do by my side, and as I think MotorCity is the reference of SMC for that kind of projects, I would really appreciate to get any technical feedback about your work.

[caribcanuk]

i can say as a modder from bhd,bf42, bf2 that ut3 is cool by crysis has it beat hands down as far as graphics and poly count. ut3 is running about 13k poly crysis most mods are using 20k as a budget but some have models aproaching 50k poly and the effects in crysis are totally awesome i love the fact you can actually shoot out a vehicles tires causing it to lose control and roll at high speed.
as a side note ive arlready gotten several models into crysis everyone just waiting on the sdk to be released to start coding there stuff.

[multimediaman]

tom, the stuff so far has been all within 3dsmax, yes. I had always planned for it to be that way, but considering the rendering times from 3dsmax, and the awesomeness from some game engines out there, if I can find one that would be really easy to make mods with, that require as little coding as possible, then I just may use that instead.

However, if I am able to get my dream computer, then render times won't be an issue anymore

the biggest issue is how hard it is to create cut-scenes that involve vehicles, specific actions and animations, and all that good stuff. I'm also not 100% sure how I'd go about utilizing the game's physics within a strictly-controlled cut scene. I wouldn't want any incidents like in Driv3r, where you'd view a replay, and the cars don't act as they did while playing the game, and suddenly you wreck, and get busted and fail the mission

[tom120934]

Thanks for the explanation.

Better than a game engine, you should consider using a 3D engine. Of course, there is much more coding tasks involved, but you'll get a better control on what to do within the scene.

What is your "dream computer" ? Even if you plan to purchase dual Xeon, I doubt the render times will be negligible. Which hardware do you use currently to render ? What is the average render time for a picture ?

[multimediaman]

well, as soon as I enable Light Tracer as the advanced rendering option, that boosts render times all the way up to about 4-6 minutes for a simple scene like this ...

I also use 3dsmax 7 at home, and the mental ray version I've got sorta sucks, to put it lightly.

I was thinking something like a Boxxtech's 8400 SE...
DUAL XEON X5482 3.2GHz, 12MB cache, 1600 MHz FSB (Quad-Core)
8GB FBDIMM DDR2 800 REG ECC
Autodesk 3D Studio Max 2008 Standalone

seems like it would be quite an awesome machine to work on.

Right now I'm using a Pentium 4 at 2.4Ghz, and I have 512Mb of ram... and 3dsmax 7, as mentioned earlier.

the machine I watched at the Autodesk 2008 Launch Tour had vastly similar specs to the dual quadcore I'd mentioned, and it could render in a couple seconds what takes my machine about 1:15 to render (a 640x480 scene with a couple boxes and other primitives, solid material, in mental ray, with Global Illumination and Final Gather enabled, changed to "Preview" Quality, all other settings left at default.)

[schaefft]

Why not using the nextgen engine of gta4? Release for the ps3 and xbox360 planned in april and Im pretty sure theyll release it for pc in october too.

[Johnas]

I wouldn't be so sure about releasing it for PC. Lots of trouble were caused by the Hot Coffee mod on pc so might be that they don't do it for pc. Which would be stupid thing to do since pc users keeps GTA's alive with all the mods. Just thinking out loud but I don't want to keep my wishes too high

If it comes for pc and is easy to mod, I know I will mod the heck out of it

[multimediaman]

the GTA IV engine seems worthy, but is it worthy enough?

I'd like to see mods that have been built and functional before I decide whether to look into the engine or not.

Plus, isn't coding new cutscenes and getting events to trigger kind of a pain with the previous GTA's? doesn't seem like there's too many mission sets or anything more than just appearance mods for the game

[Johnas]

Originally Posted by multimediaman Plus, isn't coding new cutscenes and getting events to trigger kind of a pain with the previous GTA's? doesn't seem like there's too many mission sets or anything more than just appearance mods for the game

That's what I've heard and I wont think it will be easier in IV

[advan]

You could try Source engine. Created by Valve and used for games such as Half-Life 2, counter-strike and so on. Racing games have been made with source engine as well, and i think the SDK is free too.

Welcome to Steam

[DenimTiger]

Unreal 3 has been responsible for quite a few games on many platforms already. Ever heard of Gears of War?

That being said, one of the features flaunted in the tech demos was the scalability of the engine, being flexible enough to create complex interiors and expansive exteriors as well. It's a heavily shader-intensive engine, lots of blurring, shimmering and cinematic effects.

If you want to create an entire city to drive around in then your best bet would be an engine geared more toward realism and less stylisation, unless this is an explicit requirement.

Also, U3 is expensive, dude. Licensing fees for current-gen engines can bankrupt individuals.

Whatever you choose though, good luck